diff --git a/src/app/components/ProfileDetail.svelte b/src/app/components/ProfileDetail.svelte
index 5cf4a61d..f5b28346 100644
--- a/src/app/components/ProfileDetail.svelte
+++ b/src/app/components/ProfileDetail.svelte
@@ -33,7 +33,7 @@
   import {pubkeyLink, deriveSpaceBannedPubkeyItems} from "@app/core/state"
   import {
     deriveUserHasSpacePermission,
-    deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo,
+    deriveSpaceMemberRoles,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_ADD_MEMBER,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_BAN_USER,
   } from "@app/core/roles"
@@ -59,9 +59,7 @@
 
   const bannedPubkeys = url ? deriveSpaceBannedPubkeyItems(url) : undefined
 
-  const spaceMemberRoles = url ? deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo(url) : readable(new Map())
-
-  const assignedRoles = $derived($spaceMemberRoles.get(pubkey)?.roles || [])
+  const assignedRoles = url ? deriveSpaceMemberRoles(url, pubkey) : readable([])
 
   const isBanned = $derived($bannedPubkeys?.some(item => item.pubkey === pubkey) ?? false)
 
@@ -163,12 +161,12 @@
         {/if}
       </div>
       <ProfileInfo {pubkey} {url} />
-      {#if assignedRoles.length > 0}
+      {#if $assignedRoles.length > 0}
         <div class="card2 card2-sm bg-alt col-3">
           <h3 class="text-lg font-semibold">Roles</h3>
           <div class="flex flex-wrap gap-2">
-            {#each assignedRoles as role (role.name)}
-              <RoleBadge role={role.name} label={role.label} color={role.color} class="badge-md" />
+            {#each $assignedRoles as role (role.name)}
+              <RoleBadge {role} class="badge-md" />
             {/each}
           </div>
         </div>
diff --git a/src/app/components/RoleBadge.svelte b/src/app/components/RoleBadge.svelte
index 3f7e1945..75db3f7d 100644
--- a/src/app/components/RoleBadge.svelte
+++ b/src/app/components/RoleBadge.svelte
@@ -1,9 +1,10 @@
 <script lang="ts">
   import cx from "classnames"
+  import type {RoleDefinition} from "@app/core/roles"
   import {roleColorToCSS} from "@app/core/roles"
 
   type Props = {
-    role: string
+    role: RoleDefinition | string
     label?: string
     color?: number
     class?: string
@@ -11,15 +12,21 @@
 
   const {role, label, color, ...props}: Props = $props()
 
+  const roleName = $derived(typeof role === "string" ? role : role.name)
+  const roleLabel = $derived(
+    label || (typeof role === "string" ? undefined : role.label) || roleName,
+  )
+  const roleColor = $derived(color ?? (typeof role === "string" ? undefined : role.color))
+
   const style = $derived(
-    color === undefined
+    roleColor === undefined
       ? ""
-      : `color: ${roleColorToCSS(color)}; border-color: ${roleColorToCSS(color)};`,
+      : `color: ${roleColorToCSS(roleColor)}; border-color: ${roleColorToCSS(roleColor)};`,
   )
 
   const className = $derived(cx("badge badge-outline badge-sm", props.class))
 </script>
 
 <span class={className} {style}>
-  {label || role}
+  {roleLabel}
 </span>
diff --git a/src/app/components/RoomDetail.svelte b/src/app/components/RoomDetail.svelte
index 889d4bf1..ab9df8cf 100644
--- a/src/app/components/RoomDetail.svelte
+++ b/src/app/components/RoomDetail.svelte
@@ -34,10 +34,11 @@
   import RoomImage from "@app/components/RoomImage.svelte"
   import {
     deriveRoomMembers,
-    deriveRoomRoles,
+    deriveRoomRoleDefinitions,
     deriveUserIsRoomAdmin,
     deriveHasPermission,
-    sortRolesDesc,
+    getRolePermissionsLabel,
+    getRoleAccessLabel,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_EDIT_META,
   } from "@app/core/roles"
   import {
@@ -65,7 +66,7 @@
 
   const room = deriveRoom(url, h)
   const members = deriveRoomMembers(url, h)
-  const roomRoles = deriveRoomRoles(url, h)
+  const roleDefinitions = deriveRoomRoleDefinitions(url, h)
   const userIsAdmin = deriveUserIsRoomAdmin(url, h)
   const canEditMetadata = deriveHasPermission(url, h, ROOM_PERMISSION_EDIT_META)
   const membershipStatus = deriveUserRoomMembershipStatus(url, h)
@@ -74,19 +75,6 @@
   const isFavorite = $derived($userRooms.includes(h))
   const shouldNotify = deriveShouldNotify(url, h)
 
-  const roleRows = $derived.by(() =>
-    sortRolesDesc(
-      Array.from($roomRoles.roles.values()).map(role => ({
-        name: role.name,
-        label: role.label,
-        color: role.color,
-        order: role.order,
-        permissionsLabel: role.permissions.join(", "),
-        accessLabel: Array.from(role.access).join(", "),
-      })),
-    ),
-  )
-
   const back = () => history.back()
 
   const toggleMenu = () => {
@@ -278,27 +266,23 @@
         <span class="text-error">Member list not available from this relay</span>
       </div>
     {/if}
-    {#if $userIsAdmin && roleRows.length > 0}
+    {#if $userIsAdmin && $roleDefinitions.length > 0}
       <div class="card2 card2-sm bg-alt col-4">
         <strong class="text-lg">Role Definitions</strong>
         <div class="flex flex-col gap-2">
-          {#each roleRows as role (role.name)}
+          {#each $roleDefinitions as role (role.name)}
             <div class="rounded-box bg-base-300 p-3 flex flex-col gap-2">
               <div class="flex items-center gap-2">
-                <RoleBadge
-                  role={role.name}
-                  label={role.label}
-                  color={role.color}
-                  class="badge-md" />
+                <RoleBadge {role} class="badge-md" />
                 {#if role.order !== undefined}
                   <span class="text-xs opacity-70">Order {role.order}</span>
                 {/if}
               </div>
-              {#if role.permissionsLabel}
-                <p class="text-xs opacity-75">Permissions: {role.permissionsLabel}</p>
+              {#if role.permissions.length > 0}
+                <p class="text-xs opacity-75">Permissions: {getRolePermissionsLabel(role)}</p>
               {/if}
-              {#if role.accessLabel}
-                <p class="text-xs opacity-75">Access: {role.accessLabel}</p>
+              {#if role.access.size > 0}
+                <p class="text-xs opacity-75">Access: {getRoleAccessLabel(role)}</p>
               {/if}
             </div>
           {/each}
diff --git a/src/app/components/RoomMembers.svelte b/src/app/components/RoomMembers.svelte
index 160256a7..d96495f6 100644
--- a/src/app/components/RoomMembers.svelte
+++ b/src/app/components/RoomMembers.svelte
@@ -1,5 +1,4 @@
 <script lang="ts">
-  import {first, removeUndefined, sortBy} from "@welshman/lib"
   import {waitForThunkError, removeRoomMember} from "@welshman/app"
   import MenuDots from "@assets/icons/menu-dots.svg?dataurl"
   import MinusCircle from "@assets/icons/minus-circle.svg?dataurl"
@@ -20,12 +19,10 @@
   import RoleBadge from "@app/components/RoleBadge.svelte"
   import RoomName from "@app/components/RoomName.svelte"
   import RoomMembersAdd from "@app/components/RoomMembersAdd.svelte"
-  import type {RoomMember} from "@app/core/roles"
   import {
     deriveRoomMembers,
-    deriveRoomRoles,
+    deriveGroupedRoomMembers,
     deriveHasPermission,
-    sortRolesDesc,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_ADD_MEMBER,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_REMOVE_MEMBER,
   } from "@app/core/roles"
@@ -42,7 +39,7 @@
 
   const room = deriveRoom(url, h)
   const members = deriveRoomMembers(url, h)
-  const roomRoles = deriveRoomRoles(url, h)
+  const memberGroups = deriveGroupedRoomMembers(url, h)
   const canAddMembers = deriveHasPermission(url, h, ROOM_PERMISSION_ADD_MEMBER)
   const canRemoveMembers = deriveHasPermission(url, h, ROOM_PERMISSION_REMOVE_MEMBER)
 
@@ -56,58 +53,6 @@
     menuPubkey = undefined
   }
 
-  const getResolvedRoles = (member: RoomMember) =>
-    removeUndefined(member.roles.map(roleName => $roomRoles.roles.get(roleName)))
-
-  const getPrimaryRole = (member: RoomMember) => first(sortRolesDesc(getResolvedRoles(member)))
-
-  const memberGroups = $derived.by(() => {
-    const byRole = new Map<
-      string,
-      {
-        key: string
-        label: string
-        color?: number
-        order?: number
-        members: RoomMember[]
-      }
-    >()
-    const defaultGroup = {
-      key: "members",
-      label: "Members",
-      members: [] as RoomMember[],
-    }
-
-    for (const member of $members) {
-      const primaryRole = getPrimaryRole(member)
-
-      if (!primaryRole) {
-        defaultGroup.members.push(member)
-        continue
-      }
-
-      if (!byRole.has(primaryRole.name)) {
-        byRole.set(primaryRole.name, {
-          key: primaryRole.name,
-          label: primaryRole.label || primaryRole.name,
-          color: primaryRole.color,
-          order: primaryRole.order,
-          members: [],
-        })
-      }
-
-      byRole.get(primaryRole.name)!.members.push(member)
-    }
-
-    const groups = sortBy(group => -(group.order ?? -Infinity), Array.from(byRole.values()))
-
-    if (defaultGroup.members.length > 0) {
-      groups.push(defaultGroup)
-    }
-
-    return groups
-  })
-
   const addMember = () => pushModal(RoomMembersAdd, {url, h})
 
   const removeMember = (pubkey: string) =>
@@ -147,16 +92,12 @@
           <span class="text-base-content/70">No members yet</span>
         </div>
       {:else}
-        {#each memberGroups as group (group.key)}
+        {#each $memberGroups as group (group.key)}
           <div class="pt-2 pb-1">
-            {#if group.color !== undefined}
-              <RoleBadge
-                role={group.key}
-                label={group.label}
-                color={group.color}
-                class="badge-md" />
+            {#if group.role}
+              <RoleBadge role={group.role} class="badge-md" />
             {:else}
-              <span class="text-sm font-semibold opacity-75">{group.label}</span>
+              <span class="text-sm font-semibold opacity-75">Members</span>
             {/if}
           </div>
           {#each group.members as member (member.pubkey)}
@@ -164,10 +105,10 @@
               <div class="flex items-center justify-between gap-2">
                 <div class="min-w-0 flex-1">
                   <Profile pubkey={member.pubkey} {url} />
-                  {#if getResolvedRoles(member).length > 0}
+                  {#if member.roles.length > 0}
                     <div class="mt-1 flex flex-wrap gap-1">
-                      {#each getResolvedRoles(member) as role (role.name)}
-                        <RoleBadge role={role.name} label={role.label} color={role.color} />
+                      {#each member.roles as role (role.name)}
+                        <RoleBadge {role} />
                       {/each}
                     </div>
                   {/if}
diff --git a/src/app/components/SpaceMembers.svelte b/src/app/components/SpaceMembers.svelte
index 0e498920..56c314d7 100644
--- a/src/app/components/SpaceMembers.svelte
+++ b/src/app/components/SpaceMembers.svelte
@@ -1,5 +1,4 @@
 <script lang="ts">
-  import {sortBy} from "@welshman/lib"
   import {ManagementMethod} from "@welshman/util"
   import {manageRelay, displayProfileByPubkey} from "@welshman/app"
   import MenuDots from "@assets/icons/menu-dots.svg?dataurl"
@@ -23,14 +22,13 @@
   import Profile from "@app/components/Profile.svelte"
   import SpaceMembersAdd from "@app/components/SpaceMembersAdd.svelte"
   import SpaceMembersBanned from "@app/components/SpaceMembersBanned.svelte"
-  import type {RoomMember} from "@app/core/roles"
   import {
     deriveSpaceMembers,
     deriveSpaceBannedPubkeyItems,
     deriveSupportedMethods,
   } from "@app/core/state"
   import {
-    deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo,
+    deriveGroupedSpaceMembers,
     deriveUserHasSpacePermission,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_ADD_MEMBER,
     ROOM_PERMISSION_REMOVE_MEMBER,
@@ -47,7 +45,7 @@
 
   const members = deriveSpaceMembers(url)
   const bans = deriveSpaceBannedPubkeyItems(url)
-  const spaceMemberRoles = deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo(url)
+  const memberGroups = deriveGroupedSpaceMembers(url, members)
   const canAddMember = deriveUserHasSpacePermission(url, ROOM_PERMISSION_ADD_MEMBER)
   const canBanByPermission = deriveUserHasSpacePermission(url, ROOM_PERMISSION_BAN_USER)
   const canUnallowByPermission = deriveUserHasSpacePermission(url, ROOM_PERMISSION_REMOVE_MEMBER)
@@ -59,72 +57,6 @@
     $canUnallowByPermission && $supportedMethods.includes(ManagementMethod.UnallowPubkey),
   )
 
-  type SpaceMemberWithRoles = RoomMember & {
-    roleDefinitions: Array<{name: string; label?: string; color?: number; order?: number}>
-    primaryRole?: {name: string; label?: string; color?: number}
-    sortKey: number
-  }
-
-  const memberGroups = $derived.by(() => {
-    const byRole = new Map<
-      string,
-      {
-        key: string
-        label: string
-        color?: number
-        order?: number
-        members: SpaceMemberWithRoles[]
-      }
-    >()
-    const defaultGroup = {
-      key: "members",
-      label: "Members",
-      members: [] as SpaceMemberWithRoles[],
-    }
-
-    for (const pubkey of $members) {
-      const roleInfo = $spaceMemberRoles.get(pubkey)
-      const member = {
-        pubkey,
-        roles: roleInfo?.roles.map(role => role.name) || [],
-        roleDefinitions: roleInfo?.roles || [],
-        primaryRole: roleInfo?.primaryRole,
-        sortKey: roleInfo?.sortKey ?? -Infinity,
-      }
-
-      if (!member.primaryRole) {
-        defaultGroup.members.push(member)
-        continue
-      }
-
-      const roleName = member.primaryRole.name
-
-      if (!byRole.has(roleName)) {
-        byRole.set(roleName, {
-          key: roleName,
-          label: member.primaryRole.label || roleName,
-          color: member.primaryRole.color,
-          order: member.sortKey,
-          members: [],
-        })
-      }
-
-      byRole.get(roleName)!.members.push(member)
-    }
-
-    const groups = sortBy(group => -(group.order ?? -Infinity), Array.from(byRole.values()))
-
-    for (const group of groups) {
-      group.members = sortBy(member => -member.sortKey, group.members)
-    }
-
-    if (defaultGroup.members.length > 0) {
-      groups.push(defaultGroup)
-    }
-
-    return groups
-  })
-
   const back = () => history.back()
 
   const toggleMenu = (pubkey: string) => {
@@ -203,16 +135,12 @@
           <span class="text-base-content/70">No members yet</span>
         </div>
       {:else}
-        {#each memberGroups as group (group.key)}
+        {#each $memberGroups as group (group.key)}
           <div class="pt-2 pb-1">
-            {#if group.color !== undefined}
-              <RoleBadge
-                role={group.key}
-                label={group.label}
-                color={group.color}
-                class="badge-md" />
+            {#if group.role}
+              <RoleBadge role={group.role} class="badge-md" />
             {:else}
-              <span class="text-sm font-semibold opacity-75">{group.label}</span>
+              <span class="text-sm font-semibold opacity-75">Members</span>
             {/if}
           </div>
           {#each group.members as member (member.pubkey)}
@@ -220,10 +148,10 @@
               <div class="flex items-center justify-between gap-2">
                 <div class="min-w-0 flex-1">
                   <Profile pubkey={member.pubkey} {url} />
-                  {#if member.roleDefinitions.length > 0}
+                  {#if member.roles.length > 0}
                     <div class="mt-1 flex flex-wrap gap-1">
-                      {#each member.roleDefinitions as role (role.name)}
-                        <RoleBadge role={role.name} label={role.label} color={role.color} />
+                      {#each member.roles as role (role.name)}
+                        <RoleBadge {role} />
                       {/each}
                     </div>
                   {/if}
diff --git a/src/app/core/roles.ts b/src/app/core/roles.ts
index 8a1c26ce..3fc05126 100644
--- a/src/app/core/roles.ts
+++ b/src/app/core/roles.ts
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-import {derived, readable} from "svelte/store"
+import {derived, readable, type Readable} from "svelte/store"
 import {first, memoize, removeUndefined, simpleCache, sortBy, uniq} from "@welshman/lib"
 import {deriveArray, deriveEventsByIdForUrl} from "@welshman/store"
 import {pubkey, repository, tracker} from "@welshman/app"
@@ -53,6 +53,18 @@ export type RoomMember = {
   roles: string[]
 }
 
+export type MemberRoleInfo = {
+  pubkey: string
+  roles: RoleDefinition[]
+  primaryRole?: RoleDefinition
+}
+
+export type MemberRoleGroup = {
+  key: string
+  role?: RoleDefinition
+  members: MemberRoleInfo[]
+}
+
 type ParsedRoleState = {
   roles: Map<string, RoleDefinition>
   hasPermissionTags: boolean
@@ -65,11 +77,7 @@ type RoomSnapshot = {
   admins: RoomMember[]
 }
 
-export type SpaceMemberRoleInfo = {
-  roles: RoleDefinition[]
-  primaryRole?: RoleDefinition
-  sortKey: number
-}
+export type SpaceMemberRoleInfo = MemberRoleInfo
 
 type SpaceRoleState = {
   hasPermissionTags: boolean
@@ -275,8 +283,62 @@ const getResolvedRoles = (rolesByName: Map<string, RoleDefinition>, roleNames: s
 export const sortRolesDesc = <T extends {order?: number}>(items: T[]) =>
   sortBy(item => -(item.order ?? -Infinity), items)
 
+export const getRoleLabel = (role: RoleDefinition) => role.label || role.name
+
+export const getRolePermissionsLabel = (role: RoleDefinition) => role.permissions.join(", ")
+
+export const getRoleAccessLabel = (role: RoleDefinition) => Array.from(role.access).join(", ")
+
 const getPrimaryRole = (roles: RoleDefinition[]) => first(sortRolesDesc(roles))
 
+const toMemberRoleInfo = (pubkey: string, roles: RoleDefinition[]): MemberRoleInfo => {
+  const sortedRoles = sortRolesDesc(roles)
+
+  return {
+    pubkey,
+    roles: sortedRoles,
+    primaryRole: first(sortedRoles),
+  }
+}
+
+const sortMemberRoleInfos = (members: MemberRoleInfo[]) =>
+  sortBy(member => -(member.primaryRole?.order ?? -Infinity), members)
+
+export const groupMemberRoleInfos = (members: MemberRoleInfo[]) => {
+  const byRole = new Map<string, MemberRoleGroup>()
+  const ungrouped: MemberRoleGroup = {
+    key: "members",
+    members: [],
+  }
+
+  for (const member of sortMemberRoleInfos(members)) {
+    if (!member.primaryRole) {
+      ungrouped.members.push(member)
+      continue
+    }
+
+    const key = member.primaryRole.name
+
+    if (!byRole.has(key)) {
+      byRole.set(key, {
+        key,
+        role: member.primaryRole,
+        members: [],
+      })
+    }
+
+    byRole.get(key)!.members.push(member)
+  }
+
+  const groups = sortBy(group => -(group.role?.order ?? -Infinity), Array.from(byRole.values()))
+
+  if (ungrouped.members.length > 0) {
+    groups.push(ungrouped)
+  }
+
+  return groups
+}
+
 const deriveRoomRoleAssignments = simpleCache(([url, h]: [string, string]) =>
   derived(
     [deriveRoomRoleState(url, h), deriveRoomMembers(url, h), deriveRoomAdmins(url, h)],
@@ -523,6 +585,23 @@ export const deriveUserRoleColor = (url: string, h: string, targetPubkey: string
       getPrimaryRole(getResolvedRoles($roomRoles.roles, $roleNames))?.color,
   )
 
+export const deriveRoomRoleDefinitions = (url: string, h: string) =>
+  derived(deriveRoomRoles(url, h), $roomRoles =>
+    sortRolesDesc(Array.from($roomRoles.roles.values())),
+  )
+
+export const deriveRoomMemberRoleInfo = (url: string, h: string) =>
+  derived([deriveRoomMembers(url, h), deriveRoomRoles(url, h)], ([$members, $roomRoles]) =>
+    sortMemberRoleInfos(
+      $members.map(member =>
+        toMemberRoleInfo(member.pubkey, getResolvedRoles($roomRoles.roles, member.roles)),
+      ),
+    ),
+  )
+
+export const deriveGroupedRoomMembers = (url: string, h: string) =>
+  derived(deriveRoomMemberRoleInfo(url, h), $members => groupMemberRoleInfos($members))
+
 export const getRoleSortKey = (url: string, h: string, targetPubkey: string) =>
   derived(
     [deriveUserRoles(url, h, targetPubkey), deriveRoomRoles(url, h)],
@@ -535,17 +614,23 @@ export const deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo = (url: string) =>
     const roleInfoByPubkey = new Map<string, SpaceMemberRoleInfo>()
 
     for (const [pubkey, roles] of $spaceRoleState.memberRoles.entries()) {
-      const sortedRoles = sortRolesDesc(roles)
-      const primaryRole = first(sortedRoles)
-
-      roleInfoByPubkey.set(pubkey, {
-        roles: sortedRoles,
-        primaryRole,
-        sortKey: primaryRole?.order ?? -Infinity,
-      })
+      roleInfoByPubkey.set(pubkey, toMemberRoleInfo(pubkey, roles))
     }
 
     return roleInfoByPubkey
   })
 
+export const deriveSpaceMemberRoles = (url: string, targetPubkey: string) =>
+  derived(
+    deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo(url),
+    $spaceMemberRoles => $spaceMemberRoles.get(targetPubkey)?.roles || [],
+  )
+
+export const deriveGroupedSpaceMembers = (url: string, members: Readable<string[]>) =>
+  derived([members, deriveSpaceMemberRoleInfo(url)], ([$members, $spaceMemberRoles]) =>
+    groupMemberRoleInfos(
+      $members.map(pubkey => $spaceMemberRoles.get(pubkey) || toMemberRoleInfo(pubkey, [])),
+    ),
+  )
+
 export const roleColorToCSS = (hue: number) => `oklch(0.75 0.15 ${(hue * 360) / 255})`